Cycling

This is going to bore the fuck out of you and should be on the TDF board, but still. I'm no fan of Armstrong, he's a fucking wanker imo.

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This guy is a coach on the doping board I read. These posts are from an “Armstrong comeback” thread. It’s a bit long with some repetition, but well worth reading.



It’s not just cycling, all sports use drugs.


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Lance was at least 6.5 watts per kilo in his day.

No F-ing way Lance is at 420 for FTP now......but properly jacked he could get close to his old FTP per kilo. He might have been at 420 for his 2nd place finish at Leadville this year.

Many people do not understand that you cannot humanly get to 420 watts FTP without dope. 420 is a huge number to hold for 50-60 minutes...huge!

I doubt that anyone had 6 watts per kilo at FTP for this years TDF.....except maybe Sastre for the last TT and Ricco until he was busted.

Evans was probably 5.7 or so.

They were not even close to the FTP of years ago...even Chicken Man and Contradoper last year were a fair bit higher.

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Lance's unjacked crit has been recorded at 41%. This is typical of endurance athletes(40-43%). Aspen might get him to 46-47% max....and living (and training) at 10,000 feet is shitty for training and sleep. The altitude thing, as well as hypoxic tents(altitude tents) is total BS with pro's and is a "cover up" for jacking.

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Lance can do fairly well and he won't be using PEDS that are listed on the banned list...he will blood dope with his own blood as he did before with Disco/Postal. BUT!>>> he will only do well if can manage to get his crit above 50% right before the start of a big race and stages.

If Lance did the TDF clean he probably wouldn't even be able to finish or at very best he might get top 50-75.....thus was the power of the best doping program in the business combined with the best riders(Old Postal and Disco) combined with Ferrari consultation(few had Ferrari)

Lemond knows this and that is why he stated in the press conference that Lance's power profile be followed from now until he races all the big races.

Lemond has a vendetta going on against Lance because Lemond missed the epo boat in 1991 and got his ass handed to him on a platter by Indurain and 6 other riders...I think Lance is in trouble because of this...after all what Lemond asked for is very reasonable and the cycling community is going to want to see his power profile as a result.

Right now Lance's undoped FTP is probably only about 330-40 watts....at his best he only had an undoped 82 VO2 max and it is less now for sure, and that does not give much "ceiling" to develop a super high FTP.......it's watts per kilo at FTP that win grand tours.

I hate Lance.....not because he doped but because he has "gone off" at the mouth for so long about being clean...and he has been telling very sick people that they can accomplish their goals, just like he did in his tour wins, by sheer power of the will. What a bunch of CRAP!

Frankly....I am hoping Landis comes out and admits that Lance once dumped his blood refill down the toilet right in front of him.

...AND...I am still mad at Mercyx for getting Ferrari to take on Lance.

Lance is a F-ing prick that needs to be punished.

Basso will be "the man" in 2009.

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Lance responded very well to doping. Not everyone gets the same degree of power increase from a doping program...Lance was without a doubt a super responder AND he also had special info from Ferrari that he did not tell the rest of his team mates about. VERY few guys got to see Ferrari. If it was not for Eddy Merckx talking to Ferrari in person for Lance then Lance would never have won a tour.

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The best a person can get without dope is about 5.8-5.9 watts per kilo for FTP. Total freaks like Lemond, Hinault, Fignon, etc on minimal juice(mostly recovery type gear, cotiocoids and amphetamines at most and Lemond probably on even less) and certainly nothing even close to epo could only hold about 390 watts for FTP at 67 to 69 kilo's . (Yes Lemond and Fignon were tested by wattage and it is well know that Hinault could keep up with Lemond in long climbs before 86).

Undoped Lance would not have stood a chance against any of those men...no chance at all....his undoped VO2 max was only 82 at it's best....that's F all in the realm of talented riders. Shit mine was better than that in my prime.

There is no chance in hell that "lance" has even close to 5.8 watts per kilo right now. My guess is that his undoped FTP in good shape is no more than 4.4 watts per kilo....seriously. That's about 350 watts at his current 80 kilo's. Even if he managed to get back down to 72 kilo's and increase his FTP to 370 he would still only have 5.1 watts per kilo...and there is no way in Hell that he could get over 370 watts undoped...no way!

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He will blood dope with his own blood and at the same time have an altitude tent. He will say that it is the altitude tent that got his crit to 50..... ....which of course will be total BS. You cannot get to 50 with such tents...and the sleep is shitty because you are always sleeping O2 deprived.....so you cannot train hard and recover.

There is a technique that allows you to freeze you own blood and see minimal red cells death.. so they cannot catch him based on the amount of dead cells..I will not go into that but I will say that it has all to do with the preserving solution you use.

Frozen red cells can last 10 bloody years...pun intended Lance probably has at least 20 units frozen .

He will also use stuff that is not on the banned list that works very well in O2 transportation.

The ONLY sure way to stop him is to do what Lemond said in Lances press conference ...and that is to follow his power profile....and to test his crit like 10 minutes before a race or stage starts.

Believe me ...I could catch him. Trouble is that lab doesn't want to catch him and they know little about the "tricks" anyway.

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Lemond was pretty clean I think, save for some corticoids from time to time. He never used epo because if he did he would have totally destroyed Indurain and the rest of the pack in 91...he was at his peak at age 30 and in the best shape of his life since 86 but he only managed 7th because he missed the epo boat.

I got that from his mouth when I talked to him in Tucson. He said he was motor pacing for over 1.5 hours at a pop....several times per week...in training for the tour. His FTP was the best ever.

He started to use the SRM in 89 after it came out in 88. He was the leader in scientific training and believe me he knows(and knew) his stuff. Not only that but he is a very nice guy.

NOTE: Lemonds VO2 max was tested in the late winter just before his first big races....he was not peaked and he was not as lean as he was for the tours so I think that his tour VO2 max was probably the highest ever and higher than that nordic skier. I think it would have been 94!!! He took very little dope and he may have been dope free save for corticoids when injured. Genetic freaks like Fignon and Hinault , Bugno, were known to take anything they could and Lemond still bettered these guys most of the time.

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Perhaps ono could say if the medical suff is correct?

I read his book about his fight against cancer.Credit to him for an amazing recovery but I also felt that he was using his illness as a diversionary tactic against the accusations against him.

Can't argue with that.

What is FTP in this context? (I realise I am leaving the door wide open here)

As bright as a 6.5 watt light bulb, something some of us can only aspire to

Functional Threshold Power

"All sports use drugs"........perhaps not to this magnitude, however.

It reads like a chemistry test to me.

Has anyone told Peppy he's a cunt yet?

Dwain Chambers

I don't get it mo, you're an intelligent man, why do you think drugs are only used by the minority?

Football players (fair enough American MLS) ask for doping protocol on the doping board, and EPO is rife in boxing.

Open your eyes mate or I'll class you as thick as sevvy.

You're over-generalising as you imply that "all sports" have a drugs problem, and that it's as endemic as it seems to be in cycling.

I just don't know how bad drugs are in sport, or whether it's "all sports", though i doubt it. And I can't speak for the MLS but if that's true it may tell us more about Americans than about football.

Though I'm well prepared to believe that Yank that plays for Rangers is on dope. Quite possibly very strong dope

It's pretty interesting I guess, but where do they get their data from?

Ha! I just noticed that this smilie is named after me!!

onomatopoeia wrote:It's pretty interesting I guess, but where do they get their data from?

From medical papers like this. They read more medical studies than doctors.

That's pretty specialist stuff. What about the VO2- does that need to be published for individuals? And the FTPs, it's pretty specific, where does that come from?

VO2 levels are not needed to comply with doping controls.

If you scroll down this link you'll see Greg Lemond's numbers. Greg was considered (by some/me) as the most naturally gifted cyclist of all time (Merckx was the best mind) due to his figures. He's also pretty much thought to be the last "clean" cyclist to win the TDF.

All the stuff you read about Armstrong having the highest scientific figures which is why he's so good, are bollocks imo.

Greg wants Armstrong to publish his FTP (think it's that, will try and find the link) because this will indicate if Armstrong is doping. Armstrong doesn't seem to want to publish these figures, hmmm

The figures are obtained with labtests, though FTP can be obtained with a power meter.

It's thought a figure of 400 watts and above cannot be achieved without doping, EPO specifically. Other drugs will help, especially with recovery, and so allowing you to train harder, but EPO is the kiddie.




EDIT:
Greg link.




I'm fascininated by doping, so sorry if it's boring you all.

And this was a certain rider's procedure to avoid detection..........allegedly:

Armstrong was actually caught in 99 with cortisone in his blood....then his doc produces a script for a saddle cream and he is off the hook ! HA!..anyone that knows pro cycling knows that cortico's were, and still are, the most widely used drug.

Anyway....Lance and others like Ullirch and Basso etc etc..... would disappear late in the season or early in the off season. They would quickly jack to 55% in a few weeks "good" epo cycle and then save bags of their own blood.
You simply take the whole blood and spin off the plasma and platelets. This leaves ya with pure packed red cells. Each 500 cc of whole blood will spin down to about 300cc of packed red cells.

HA!>>>then the packed cells are frozen quickly with liquid nitrogen and placed in a rack, evenly spaced, in a very cold freezer. Red cells can be kept frozen in a cryoprotectant (usually glycerol) for 10 years

For every unit of packed cells you "re-infuse" you get a 3 point increase in crit.

All you have to get to 49% for the initial "weigh in" testing with blood doping(your own saved blood)...go back to your trailer and infuse a couple units and bingo you're 55%.
If they test you after a stage you simply say you are dehydrated. If they insist on a test after you hydrate then you grant them their wish but fist you go to the trailer/motorhome to re-hydrate he he he.... and infuse a couple liters of saline or lactated ringers IV into ya . Each liter of saline or ringers will drop your crit 3 points. The after an hour or two you pee it all out and bingo you're back at 55%!

The blood in our friendly Spanish doc's office WAS FROZEN PACKED CELLS of Ullrich, Basso etc etc.

Ullrich packed it in because he knew he was toast anyway. Basso is very lucky to only get one year....he had his own blood frozen in the office!!! HA!

Now before epo testing nobody really bothered with this and just used epo all the time "in season".

Blood doping with ones own blood isn't rocket science and has been around a long time but it never caught on with pro cyclists in the 80's as some people think. The 80's were years of ampetamine, cortico and some steroid/testosterone use.


These are not my words Mr lawyer.

This guy was asking if this would be a good programme for football:

I was planning on doing probably anavar and t-bol for 8-10 weeks. (not sure which yet)
anavar - 80mg day
T-bol - 60mg day

pct - Clomid/nolva for four weeks
50/40
50/40
50/20
50/20

Was told no, and that EPO was the way forward.

"As an aside.... EPO and other dope like corticoid are used a lot in pro soccer."

Will post more examples from other sports just to open tha baldy one's eyes.

Your average footballer couldn't get past the first line of instructions in some of that stuff, Crown

Takes most of them 5 minutes to order a Big Mac and a Snickers after training ffs

Yep, it is interesting, why do people need to cheat anyway? It's not the winning it's the taking part

supermo wrote:Your average footballer couldn't get past the first line of instructions in some of that stuff, Crown

Takes most of them 5 minutes to order a Big Mac and a Snickers after training ffs

Your average cyclist isn't too sharp either mo, the cunts can barely tie their own shoe laces, which is why their shoes have velcro fastening........................................like mine.


The doping (in a pro team) is administered by the doctors, so the cyclist can be thick as pig shit. See Ricardo Rico.


Doping board is in a bit of a flap at the moment, someone's been sending unsolicited PMs offering gear, not good protocol.

Surely if you are on a doping board then that's not to be unexpected? Unless of course it's the rozzers :;:sherlock holmes:;:

onomatopoeia wrote:Surely if you are on a doping board then that's not to be unexpected?

It's against the rules!

So.... all these people are just "interested" in doping theory???

Errr, yes, "theoretical", that's what the posts are. (insert looking shifty smiley)

i think is the one!

Aye, that's me.

Heard this one on Family guy from my hero Glen quagmire-------------
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"HEY LOIS, WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO DRAG MY SACK ACROSS YOUR FACE "